NowThis Interview Transcript
April 18
Host: Can you tell us a little bit about what the Umbrella Protest or UmbrellaMovement is? And why is it important?
Joshua: Before the handover of HK, China promised HK to achieve universal suffrage - let every Hongkonger have one person one vote. However, since1997 until now, we have waited 19 years already. We have realised that it was a fake promise, that’s why two years ago when the Communist party of China ignored our demand, our request on having a universal suffrage, we tried to throw demonstrations, assembly and finally civil disobedience and occupying action to show our disagreement and demand on universal suffrage, and hope to let the world know that Hong Kong people wants real election.
Host: That time in 2014, was there any result came from the Umbrella Movement?
Joshua: Luckily we can let the world know that Hong Kong is not only a global financial centre, Hong Kong is a city in which many people live, and we hope to have better human rights and achieve the universal value. Unfortunately, although we have 200 thousands of people occupying the road for 79 days, Beijing still did not accept our demand.
Host: At what point did you realise that the movement was going to be huge? It’s hard to anticipate that millions of people were going to come…
Joshua: Actually before the Umbrella Movement, I didn’t expect we would occupy the road and show the persistence to voice out our demand of democracy by civil obedience and such a large scale movement. We believe that Hongkongers have created history and we let the world know our persistence. Everything is out of expectation, including the attitude of the Communist Party. However, I would like to let the people in America know that even two years ago during the Occupying Movement, we couldn’t force the government to let us regain universal suffrage. We are still committed to movements, Hong Kong is the place where we live and we love, and we will still try our best to commit to movements, despite of the price we need to pay, until we can get direct election, one person one vote.
Host: I don’t think that everyone is familiar with maybe the differences, what’s happening in Mainland China and Hong Kong. Would you be able to explain how life is different in those two places, especially for young people?
Joshua: Hong Kong is different from Mainland China, because we have rule of law, judicial independence. We can still have freedom of speech and free access to different websites, for example, people cannot visit Facebook, Youtube, Twitter and Google websites in Mainland China. Hong Kong is one of the special administrative regions under the rule of People’s Republic of China, that’s why we still have rule of law. However, the core value in Hong Kong has been eroded continuously by Beijing.
Host: Could you explain the power of the young people in this movement? It seems that a lot of political parties even now started by young people including yourself. So tell us a little bit about the power of youth in this movement.
Joshua: Most of the youth think that politics is the thing that belongs to people after graduating from universities and that 30 to 40 years old is the starting point of people to be involved in politics. However, the situation we face in Hong Kong is different - teenagers join student strikes at 13 years old, they join civil disobedience at 14, they hold slogans, wear masks and face pepper spray and tear gas at the age of 15, but they will still commit by direct actions, even in the future they may political prosecution. Actually I am now forming a political party named as Demosistō, in which “Demo” means the people, “sistō” means persistence and resistance. We hope to show the people’s resistance towards the ruler of China, so we form the party and demand for self-determination.
Host: You were saying how young people were facing pepper spray and things like that. I know that’s a fact that faced by you personally as well, can you talk about any prosecution you are currently facing?
Joshua: I am facing the inciting of unauthorised assembly, contempt of court and obstructing police officer. Some of the trials have started already, and the most serious one is inciting an unauthorised assembly, because even we enjoy freedom of speech in Hong Kong, we don’t have the rights to freely organise assembly, as we only have approximation of freedom and things seem to be moving backward. The trial of inciting an unauthorised assembly will end in June, meaning that I will know whether I am convicted or not, and the penalty after two months. The maximum penalty of that is to put into prison for five years. I don’t know what would be the trial result, but despite of the price that I need to pay, I still hope the world know that Hongkongers are still committed to fighting for democracy and self-determination. It is not easy for us, but we will try our best until we get the things that originally belong to us.
Host: That’s the age that… you know most of us got to go to college and do all these things…
Joshua: I am still a year 2 university student studying Politics…
Host: So are you scared and how do you feel about potentially having to face prison time until you are 24?
Joshua: It is not easy - my number, my address and other personal information are public on the internet, and I can’t enter Mainland China. Last year when a non-governmental organisation from Malaysia invited me to give a speech, the immigration department told me that I had to return to Hong Kong when I arrived at the Malaysia airport. The Malaysian official claimed that they rejected me to enter because I would affect their country’s relationship with Mainland China. It’s ridiculous and in no sense that my visit would affect its relationship with China. So I think it’s never an easy thing for us, to form a political party, to face trials, it’s really a long-term battle for us. However, what we concern the most is the future of Hong Kong, because we still have rule of law and judicial independence under One Country Two Systems. The problem is, after the expiry date of the Sino-British Joint Declaration in 2047, after the end of Basic Law, after the end of One Country Two Systems, will Hong Kong suddenly change to One Country One System? Will Hong Kong become a normal city in China like Guangzhou, Shenzhen and Shanghai? The new generation are worried about the rule of law and judicial independence being continuously eroded by Beijing. We still hope to maintain the uniqueness of Hong Kong which differentiates us from China.
Host: There’s been some criticism from students from Mainland China, and there’s some general criticism about street activism as an approach, do you have any comments on street activism versus political? I know you are doing both now…
Joshua: I think I will emphasis on two points. Firstly, if Hongkongers could successfully achieve democracy just through negotiations, dialogues and meetings, maybe while I was just a primary school student in around 2007 to 2008, we could have universal suffrage and choose our chief executive by one person one vote in our city. However, history has proven that negotiations and private, closed-door meetings are not effective. That’s why, from assembly to rally, and to civil disobedience and direct actions - that’s the trend for us to upgrade as progressive actions. Another point is people may criticise me as starting off from street protesting and question my reason to enter the legislature by running in the election. I can’t enter the election because the minimum age to run in the election in Hong Kong is 21, and I am just 19. People also ask why I form the political party - because I realise that the road to democracy is really a long-term battle, the challenges we have to face may come after 30 years, like what I have mentioned, after the expiry date of One Country Two Systems. That’s why we hope to ensure that Hong Kong can get the right of self-determination, we hope we can throw a referendum to decide the future of the city, no matter it’s One Country One System, to maintain the self- governance and autonomy under One Country Two Systems, or even independence. We hope to determine the future of Hong Kong through referendum instead of relying on the Communist Party.
Host: So why did you decide to move to the political sphere before you know you could even necessarily be a face of it?
Joshua: It’s not an easy decision and the price that I need to pay is high. The reason for me to commit and even form the party is that…I think that..If organising a student organisation is not able for me to be ready, to prepare for self-determination movement in the coming ten years, the only suitable form of organisation is a political party. If we claim that we need to fight in the next ten years and achieve the demand for self-determination, hoping to get the general public’s support from Hong Kong, and more importantly, the international community endorsing the right to self-determination of HongKongers, forming a political party is the only way for us to prepare for the long-term battle.
Host: Right…So you have been on this journey since you were 17…
Joshua: 14 actually…
Host: 14?
Joshua: I founded student organisation Scholarism when I was 14 years old.
Host: So throughout this journey of protest, arrests and lawsuits, what has been the most rewarding part of the process for you and why do you keep fighting?
Joshua: The most unforgettable scene of participating in social movements in the past five years is how we change the impossibles to possibles. I think it’s the most significant part that gives me the motivation to commit and continue moving forward to fight for democracy and freedom. What I mean is, two years ago, before the Umbrella Movement just started, I was arrested and had to stay in police station for 46 hours. During the period, thousands of Hongkongers went to the Cental Government Offices to support students, they were not afraid of the pepper spray and tear gas. The activist still persist on non-violent means to show their disagreement towards the government and the police. After I was released by the police, I walked out of the door of the police station, and realised that everything in the city had changed, Hong Kong had changed. In the past, people might o
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